SIDNEY McMATH - DAVID PRYOR transcript five

SIDNEY McMATH - DAVID PRYOR

DAVID PRYOR: Well, Governor, there's one more race, one more race that I'd like to bring up, if you don't mind, and that is the race, I believe it was 1962. You had hired Orval E. Faubus in your administration. He was involved with the Highway Department. He had become Governor elected in 1954 upsetting Francis Cherry, I might add, and it comes 1962 and you said you think you'll just take on your old former employee, Orval E. Faubus. By that time he had acquired and assimilated an enormous power base and he had appointed, I guess, every Board Member, every Commission Appointee in the State had been his. In 1962 you challenged Orval Faubus for Governor. What was going on in your mind? What was your motivation? And let's talk about that race just a moment.

SIDNEY McMATH: Well, I gave that a lot of consideration. Of course, in the main I'd be running against people who had been my support. See? Against an organization that I helped build and I understood the difficulties and again, that may have been a mistake, to make that race, because of the formable opposition and the issue that was so paramount in the peoples' mind but I wanted to make a statement and I made that race in order to make a statement. I thought our leadership was going in the wrong direction at the wrong time and I made that statement. I was defeated and that was the reason I made it and I did the best I could. I ran as hard a race as I could but I didn't have enough votes in the ballot box.

DAVID: Well, you sure were up against a massive amount of fire power with Orval Faubus at that time because he was probably at the peak of his power. By 1962 he had gotten through the integration crisis and all of that business but he had built an enormous power base probably unlike any other Governor we've ever had.

SID: If it's any consolation I have a feeling at least I've been vindicated by history.

DAVID: Uh-huh. I think people will agree to that. I certainly do. Governor, I want to go back – we have one thing in common. Both of us had been defeated by John L. McClellan.

SID: Yes.

DAVID: Senator McClellan.

SID: Right.

DAVID: And when you said there was a race that you might not should have run when you thought about making that race for a third term. Maybe that was a race I should not have run in 1972 but I did and looking back on I don't have a lot of regrets. Things have worked out great for me.

SID: Well, that made a base for you.

DAVID: It's just been wonderful, people have been wonderful to me and very, very tolerant of me for all of these years but Governor…

SID: Well, let me say this right here, David, there's nobody in politics past or present that has more loyal friends and supporters of David Pryor.

DAVID: Well, that's very, very kind of you especially...

SID: I say that from my heart.

DAVID: …coming from Sidney McMath. Thank you very, very much. I appreciate you saying that. You almost defeated John McClellan in 1954. Now, that was a razor-edge…

SID: That's right.

DAVID: …razor-close, I should say, race. A lot of people say that in certain counties you were counted out and I don't know that to be the case. I don't know whether that's true or false but you surely almost won that race.

SID: Well, you know, it'd look like sour grapes or a poor loser if you say, well, I was counted out because they cheated and so forth but there was two (2) or three (3) counties in Eastern Arkansas where people that I had relied on in the past, had been for me, they went the other way at the last minute and it made a difference in the race.

DAVID: That's right. Speaking of "sour grapes", a lot of times and I know many, many more have come to you than they've ever come to me but many times young people come to me and they say, "David, tell us, we're interested in running for office. Tell us what we should do. Tell us how we run. How do we choose a campaign manager or a slogan? What should be our message?" I said, "Listen, there's no secret to this." There's one thing that I tell everybody, I said, "Be prepared to lose. Hopefully you're going to win but be prepared to lose and if you lose, be a good loser. Because people in Arkansas watch how you lose, I think, much more closely than how you win. And you have always been a magnanimous, gracious politician in victory and defeat.

SID: Thank you.

DAVID: And I think people have always admired that in you and you have risen above whatever degree of hurt you might be having in your own self and soul and heart at the moment.

SID: Thank you. You mentioned about young people…

DAVID: Yes.

SID: …getting into politics. You know, I think you would agree with me in saying that first they have to have a motive, the right motivation, a passion to accomplish something, that they're willing to go out and pay the price of being a politician.

DAVID: There is a price to pay.

SID: In order to accomplish that one thing.

DAVID: There's a price to pay.

SID: And you have to be willing to fight for that whether or not at the time it might be politically correct, the thing to do but a quotation somewhere in my mind is about motivation, it goes about motivation, if I can remember it. "The right motive gives pinions to thought and freedom and strength to speech and action." You have the right motive, otherwise don't get in.

DAVID: That is fabulous. Now, I'd like to conclude on a story and I brought it up earlier in our conversation because you had mentioned "dogs" two (2) times, various dogs. Now, I want to know the story of Old Red. I remember, in growing up, I heard about Old Red at the Governor's Mansion. Now, tell us that story one more time.

SID: Well, I'll tell you what. Old Red was a great dog.

DAVID: Was Old Red from Grant County?

SID: No.

DAVID: No.

SID: He was up from, let's see. Up in Northwest Arkansas, just below Sebastian County, just before Fort Smith.

DAVID: Maybe even in Van Buren or up in there?

SID: Yeah, that's right. That's right. They were having a road opening dedication and they invited me up to cut the ribbon. And so I cut the ribbon and those coon hunters up there knew that I was a coon hunter. See? My boys and I hunted coons down on my farm and so forth. So, they made a great ceremony out of giving me Old Red and so I took Old Red home with me and he was there at the Mansion and we were feeding him out of the Governor's fund and so forth. And there was a newspaper reporter in North Little Rock took up the issue and accused me of misusing the Governor's funds, the operating funds to feed my dog. Feeding him so forth and so forth. Well, my response was that Old Red had replaced one (1) State Trooper as a guard at the Mansion. And since he was working for the State, I thought it was only fair that he fed by the State.

DAVID: Be fed by the State. What a fair compromise. And I think you prevailed in that argument there

SID: Prevailed in that argument, that's right.

DAVID: That's one of the great stories. Well, here we have, we've talked about the Med Center. We'd talked about the Highway Program. We've talked about the Rural Electrification that you have felt so passionately about but probably the most passionate that you've become is when you talk about education of our young people and I don't think I know of any Governor in history that has done more for education than Sidney Sanders McMath. Talk about that just a moment.

SID: Well, of course, as I mentioned earlier, I have felt with a passion that every child is entitled to an opportunity for an education, find his talents, hone his skills and be a good citizen, a productive citizen, and I, as Governor, tried to appropriate more money for public education. I helped in consolidating the schools from some 1700 to around 300 and something and I advanced the program at the AM&N College in Pine Bluff, the one for the black people and so, as I say, it was one of my passions and I tried to further that while I was in office.

DAVID: Well, the late Daisy Bates, many, many times would say in her speeches and her admonitions to young people and in reviewing her life that those who are not educated are not free.

SID: Sure, I agree.

DAVID: And I think that is true and I think you have believe that.

SID: Correct.

DAVID: For these many years. Governor, let me say that this State is better off today because of you, sir, what an honor it has been for me to visited with you during this program on AETN.

SID: Thank you.

DAVID: We're very, very proud that this is the first in a series and we couldn't have gone any higher to begin and to inaugurate this series.

SID: Thank you, David. I appreciate it very much.

DAVID: Thank you, sir.





TRANSCRIBED BY:

PATSY BILLINGS

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